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Author Topic: Smoke in the reav view miirror  (Read 20530 times)

Offline frugalangler

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Smoke in the reav view miirror
« on: November 08, 2016, 04:26:53 PM »
Thought I'd make one last outing before putting the boat to bed for a while, so headed to the local power plant lake to chase some smallies. Had a great day, blue bird sky, very light breeze, about 60* air and 63* water temps. Managed to finesse about 10 nice smallies and 4 bonus flatheads (each one about 8#) before calling it a great fall day.

Checked out at the ranger gate and noticed one wheel on the trailer slightly cambered, but was in a turn where I parked and the torsion axles typically flex a little more than leaf sprung units, so didn't think too much about it. WRONG!

Got about 10 miles down the road and noticed wisps of smoke occasionally in the rear view mirror, but was on a 2 lane with no shoulder so I pulled into the next available location and when I did that wheel cambered further and started rubbing the inside of the fender (actually the bunk shield beside the boat). That caused a lot of smoke so I found the nearest spot to park, got out and that wheel was cambered about 10 degrees, smoke rolling out of the hub, and she was smoking hot to the touch.

Got out the jack, removed the hub cover (ranger has a better idea, an allen head screw to retain, make sure you always have one), and the pieces parts fell out on the ground! Or, what was left, as most of the oil bath hub had totally melted in a big glob inside the lug nut area. OK, this is not good. I jacked it up, put my socket on the lug nut, and immediately cracked that socket as those nuts were heat bound to the studs! Got on the phone to a buddy, he came with a floor jack, some tools, and muscles. To break the lug nuts loose, remove floor jack handle and place over breaker bar, and place on lug nut at about 9 o'clock, then 225# buddy jumped on the jack handle and it screeched about 1/8th turn That was the story for all 5 lug nuts.

Well, I can say this, Ranger Trail trailers with the torsion axles are great on 3 wheels, drove it home about 75 miles with the left rear in the floor of the boat, never did scrape, didn't have to do anything but drive. If it'd been a conventional leaf tandem it would have needed to have the gimpy axle strapped to the frame due to the design of the cantilever weight transfer system.

Bottom line, Ranger has now discontinued using the oil bath hub system, I'd herd horror stories but I've checked mine periodically and always been OK. Well, I'm not replacing 4 hubs & spindle assemblies completely - remove the wheel, unbolt the spindle from the torsion arm, bolt a new assy. on, replace wheel, good to roll with a 5 year warranty from Ranger.

If you guys have an oil bath hub, be ware, those horror stories are true!
FrugalAngler
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Offline Curt

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Re: Smoke in the reav view miirror
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2016, 06:59:38 PM »
Glad you made it home safely and without further damage or incident!

And I have heard those same horror stories about oil bath hubs. They either work, or they don't. No in between  (nope)

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Offline transamz9

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Re: Smoke in the reav view miirror
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2016, 05:55:17 AM »
That's whyour I don't like Rangers wheels.. you can't see the oil in the hubs. I can walk around my boat and see the oil in ever hub. I just replace my second seal in 8 years.

Offline bullet20dc

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Re: Smoke in the reav view miirror
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2016, 06:49:27 AM »
I convert a lot of oil bath hubs back to grease.  I know semis have been using that system for a very long time but tractor trailers dont back into water after a coupla hours driving. That fast temp difference isnt good for seals and expansion.  It also creates a vacuum and if the seal is weak water will be sucked in.  I never liked the system.  Ive replace a lot of leaking hubs and seals on those units. All 4 on SBL's Nitro now.  At least on a Nitro trailer you can see the hub oil level.  We check that every pee stop on a long tow.  takes a second to look at em.
       If your thinking of converting back to grease Its not as simple as putting on a bearing buddy and greasing it.  The axles and hubs are diff for oil bath systems. The bearings and hubs  will have to be packed by hand the old fashion way and the rear seals changed out.   Grease will get u home
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Offline transamz9

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Re: Smoke in the reav view miirror
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2016, 09:39:42 AM »
I convert a lot of oil bath hubs back to grease.  I know semis have been using that system for a very long time but tractor trailers dont back into water after a coupla hours driving. That fast temp difference isnt good for seals and expansion.  It also creates a vacuum and if the seal is weak water will be sucked in.  I never liked the system.  Ive replace a lot of leaking hubs and seals on those units. All 4 on SBL's Nitro now.  At least on a Nitro trailer you can see the hub oil level.  We check that every pee stop on a long tow.  takes a second to look at em.
       If your thinking of converting back to grease Its not as simple as putting on a bearing buddy and greasing it.  The axles and hubs are diff for oil bath systems. The bearings and hubs  will have to be packed by hand the old fashion way and the rear seals changed out.   Grease will get u home

I carry hub oil, 2 inner and 2 outer bearings , 2 seals and 2 seal rings with me all the time. I also carry wheel bearing grease in the camper just in case.

Yes I carry the tools to change them too. (giggle)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 09:42:02 AM by transamz9 »

Offline frugalangler

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Re: Smoke in the reav view miirror
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2016, 09:46:47 AM »
Charlie, I totally agree, I never did warm up to the idea for just the reasons you mention - cold shock! Heat creates expansion of air, which will escape out the seals, and therefore creates a vacuum. When dunked in the water, water will penetrate and create contamination. Rinse and repeat, and you get damaged parts. And, yes, rangers you can't monitor the contamination easily. I did periodically pull the covers and check, but you CAN'T do that every stop, and apparently I went one trip too far between checks!

Ranger has partnered w/ Tie Down Engineering for a long time. They have used TDE components on Ranger Trail trailers ever since I believe they went to the torsion suspension, and Tie Down now has a Ranger (or others that use Torsion Spindle setup) after fit that includes the spindle, hub, bearings, & seals completely assembled and greased (using Lucas marine grease) from the factory with a 5 year warranty.

So, Charlie, on mine it is that easy, although it's pricey! But, I've the satisfaction of totally new parts with a warranty. I priced out the components to change over and although not quite as much, the simplicity and warranty made my decision.

  • Jack up one side and remove both wheels
  • Remove both wheels
  • Remove caliper on rear
  • Remove both spindle and hub assy's
        (they are retained by a 1-1/2" castle nut to torsion arm)
  • Install spindle and hub assy's and torque to about 100#/ft
  • Install caliper on rear
  • Re-mount both wheels and lower trailer
  • Repeat on other side

Link to TDE's Vortex hub info:
www.tiedown.com/pdf/c1157.pdf
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Offline frugalangler

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Re: Smoke in the reav view miirror
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2016, 09:55:01 AM »


I carry hub oil, 2 inner and 2 outer bearings , 2 seals and 2 seal rings with me all the time. I also carry wheel bearing grease in the camper just in case.

Yes I carry the tools to change them too. (giggle)
Yep, and on the LCB it carries a complete hub/bearing assembly as the spare tire mount, so a field change of a hub is possible. But......

Even with all that I'd have been in a deep pool, as the spindle and hub were damaged! It got SO hot that even in shop w/ an impact I can't back the bearing nut off the spindle! I guess if you catch it soon enough, you could save one, but mine toasted in apparently about 80 miles! I was lucky not to see my wheel pass me by, it was that close to coming off the spindle! Only thing keeping it in place was the remaining parts of the inner bearing seal shell. This thing self destructed FAST!
« Last Edit: November 10, 2016, 10:23:43 AM by frugalangler »
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Offline Curt

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Re: Smoke in the reav view miirror
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2016, 10:06:09 AM »

Yep, I was lucky not to see my wheel pass me by, it was that close to coming off the spindle! Only thing keeping it in place was the remaining pars of the inner bearing seal shell. This thing self destructed FAST!

If I remember correctly, @Eric Low had that happen and he did see his tire and wheel go flying by him  (fp)

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Offline fishon-son

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Re: Smoke in the reav view miirror
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2016, 07:39:10 PM »
my stratos has a drain plug (made by ranger 2012). allen head set screw....lucky me . change oil every other year if i made the runs to st clair or saginaw river..  never had a issue with my hubs i like them much better then the greese style....now the brake system i hate...i just leave the key in and cover it with a big magnet so its always in...if not my brakes lock up when i back down to the water or into the drive...if any one know how to fix that please help  stratos want me to take it in   shop want $125 hr...2 hr min..sorry  my .50cent magnet works just fine....

Offline bullet20dc

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Re: Smoke in the reav view miirror
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2016, 07:50:36 PM »
i just drilled a 5/16  hole in the slider throught the frame of the tongue and receiver and throw a bolt in it   

frug most of the ones ive seen go bad were to the point where carrying bearings and oil and grease wont do squat.  The inner race gets fuse to the spindle from the heat and there aint nothing your doing on the side of the road to fix that.  some rigs have removable spindle asm.  but I usually end up cutting the old race off carefully with a side grinder till i get to the spindle   a few I had to replace axles
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Offline frugalangler

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Re: Smoke in the reav view miirror
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2016, 08:34:04 PM »
my stratos has a drain plug (made by ranger 2012). allen head set screw....
Some Rangers used a different setup, the instructions with mine indicated that type of hub but found they apparently used a slightly different setup, a Tie Down 'Turbo Lube' hub that just has a cap with threads replacing the typical press-fit cap (and a different inner seal) so you only unscrew the cap, add oil till if filled the hub to the bottom of the hub opening, then replaced the cap. That is the style that failed on mine.

....now the brake system i hate...i just leave the key in and cover it with a big magnet so its always in...if not my brakes lock up when i back down to the water or into the drive...if any one know how to fix that please help  stratos want me to take it in   shop want $125 hr...2 hr min..sorry  my .50cent magnet works just fine....
Sounds like you have a bad electrical circuit - there is a bypass valve (or should be) that is connected to the backup light circuit, so if you only have a 4-prong hitch connector, you're missing the backup circuit, or the valve itself might be bad. That is a very common problem, I end up fixing a lot of them because most of the folks in our club simply don't understand electrical or brakes.
BTW, that's an ticket-able offense around these parts as by law a trailer over 2000# must have FUNCTIONAL brakes, disabled is not functional

Funny you should mention, I also have to repair that issue on mine, as I was backing in the drive after the bearing failed and it locked, so one more thing. And, yes I know the circuit works, as my backup lights on the trailer were on, or I couldn't have backed in the drive after dark when I finally got the gimpy trailer home.
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Offline bullet20dc

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Re: Smoke in the reav view miirror
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2016, 05:27:02 AM »
one thing to add Trans trailers with drum brakes have a mechanical not electrical bybass system.  Usually a dial on top of the tongue.  Problem is that most of those dials fall out and are missing. A real stupid setup but thats the reason for the hole and bolt when backing up.   Mine has drum brakes and really have no problem backing DOWN ramps without the lockout   the problem comes up when backing up hill where the weight of the trailer is actuating the slide on the tongue
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Re: Smoke in the reav view miirror
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2016, 10:25:00 AM »
one thing to add Trans trailers with drum brakes have a mechanical not electrical bybass system.  Usually a dial on top of the tongue.  Problem is that most of those dials fall out and are missing. A real stupid setup but thats the reason for the hole and bolt when backing up.   Mine has drum brakes and really have no problem backing DOWN ramps without the lockout   the problem comes up when backing up hill where the weight of the trailer is actuating the slide on the tongue

7 flat for the trailer... round plug...i thought it was more on the hydro. side   it seams to me to have no pressure holding when i back up...hence the key stops  the brakes from locking ..we have drained the hydros..im thinking the whole front unit needs replacing...but cant find one strat wont sell or give a part number to me for a new one..was going to drop it at general trailer for a look see.friend said they would do a free quote...(cabelas is a much longer drive.my local boat shop is a rip)....but hate to un load all my gear....maybe in the spring...the brakes work just fine but just wont hold on the back down..

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Re: Smoke in the reav view miirror
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2016, 11:16:48 AM »
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=back%20up%20brake%20solenoid

If one would google back up brake solenoid you will fine endless supplies of them to either replace the bad one on your trailer or even add one to a trailer that don't have one. The will even work on drum brakes. Some of them work like a line lock which in IMO sucks because usually the last thing you do before backing up is stop. The compresses the master cylinder which locks the brakes down. If you don't do a quick little forward bump before backing up the solenoid will keep the brakes locked.

The style that is on my trailer actually releases the brake line pressure back into the master cylinder when you go into reverse.

As far as the bearings go I work in a field where I work on a lot of them and it has been my experience that the wet hubs hold up better. The theory of backing hot hubs into cold water causing a vacuum goes with both types. If a wet hub runs out of oil it will run hot. If it has the proper oil in it and to the proper level then it will not run hot.

If a grease bearing runs out of grease it will also run hot causing the same issue. Try putting wheel bearing grease in a lower unit see how well it does.

Charlie I carry this stuff with me because when you catch it leaking you fix it then and there. I started carrying it with me because I was on a trip last year when I notice at a stop that one of my hubs was low in oil. That is the nice thing about having hub caps you can walk by and look at. I stopped by a local parts house where I was at and picked up a bottle of 90 weight. Took my little allen wrench and removed the plug and filled it up. That simple. I had no problems for the rest of the 400 mile trip. I got home , changed the bearings and seals on that wheel and was good to go. I bought 4 complete sets to have extras to carry with me. I changed the second set at a campground in Tennessee this year when I noticed the oil was milky through the clear cap. 9 years and two seals later I'm still rolling as good as new.

All it takes is a little maintenance. If a good hub oil is used then they can run without oil for a good while and not have a huge problem. I have personally cut more bearing off with grease hubs than I have with oil bath hubs.

This is just my opinion. 

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Re: Smoke in the reav view miirror
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2016, 08:08:17 PM »

Yep, I was lucky not to see my wheel pass me by, it was that close to coming off the spindle! Only thing keeping it in place was the remaining pars of the inner bearing seal shell. This thing self destructed FAST!

If I remember correctly, @Eric Low had that happen and he did see his tire and wheel go flying by him  (fp)

Twice last season. Front axel first. Rear axel a month later 500 miles from home. Lost a wheel somewhere in Buffalo.  Had flames in my review years ago in downtown Hartford with a conventional hub. Pulled off road on Asylum Street.  As luck would have it a Champion Dealer 10 miles or so down the road. Some great locals helped me out and got me back on the road. Trailer my weak link lately.

 

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