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Author Topic: Tow Vehicle Payload  (Read 45632 times)

Offline Jig Man

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Re: Tow Vehicle Payload
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2016, 06:21:06 PM »
I doubt it would do that very easily.  I do pull a 30' 5th wheeler with it.  It does the job but not as well as the Duramax  I had before it.  I let my wife pull the boat with her Jeep Liberty.
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Offline Curt

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Re: Tow Vehicle Payload
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2016, 08:54:43 PM »

Actually adding the air bags took away from your payload. I know the bags and hardware to mount then are not very heavy but you wold be surprised at how close you are. The only true way to tell your available payload is to go to a scale and actually weigh the 4Runner. do you not have you insurance info in the car? CDs? Maybe ice scraper. How much dirt is in, on , under the car? All that is payload.

You say that you added air bags to help level the truck. Lets talk about that for a moment. Most SUV's that I have seen the GAWR's added together added together are pretty close to the GVWR of the SUV. If you are that close to your GVWR and add the trailer tongue weight into the equation, how close are you to being overloaded on your rear axle?

Think about this....

Let's say your 4runner's rear overhang is 3' (distance from center of rear axle to the center of the ball your boat rides on) . Now we'll say that your wheel base is 10' (center of front wheel to center of back wheel). We know that your tongue weight is 500#. 500# being your force.  Force X Overhang / wheel base will give you how much weight you are removing from your front axle and adding to your rear axle when you put 500# of force on the trailer ball. 500 X 3 / 10 = 150#. So you 500# tongue weight is actually putting 650# on your rear axle.  ;)

You're making my head hurt with all of this math  (fp) LOL  (giggle)

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Offline Curt

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Re: Tow Vehicle Payload
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2016, 08:56:11 PM »
yes I agree with all of that, but I never carry anything other than my fat self and my even larger partner. 

He he  (giggle)

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Offline bullet20dc

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Re: Tow Vehicle Payload
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2016, 04:42:26 PM »
I just wanna add one minor piece of info.  Most trucks made will tow most boats just fine  HOWEVER most small trucks will be pushed thru a stop sign by most Bassboat rigs in a panic stop.   BRAKES are more important then if you can do 70 up a hill  pulling a boat trailer and a home on wheels .    You pull a 70,000.00 rig in your 50,000.00 truck you wanna be darn sure its gonna stop. Japenese truck brakes suck plain and simple and when it comes time to replace them pads  DONT skimp at the parts store and get them MADE in Mexico or China crap glue on resurfaced pads remember what you have invested back there .  20.00 more aint no big thang   Best rotors pads and calipers in the long run will outlast 3 sets of imported junk. do the math.   At the shop I wont install imported crap on trailers or tow vehicles  dont like it go to midas.......
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Re: Tow Vehicle Payload
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2016, 08:12:25 PM »
@bullet20dc Excellent point on boats pushing smaller trucks during hard stops. Small trucks really shouldn't be towing much more than small utility trailers.  (nope)

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Offline transamz9

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Re: Tow Vehicle Payload
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2016, 06:08:22 AM »
I just wanna add one minor piece of info.  Most trucks made will tow most boats just fine  HOWEVER most small trucks will be pushed thru a stop sign by most Bassboat rigs in a panic stop.   BRAKES are more important then if you can do 70 up a hill  pulling a boat trailer and a home on wheels .    You pull a 70,000.00 rig in your 50,000.00 truck you wanna be darn sure its gonna stop. Japenese truck brakes suck plain and simple and when it comes time to replace them pads  DONT skimp at the parts store and get them MADE in Mexico or China crap glue on resurfaced pads remember what you have invested back there .  20.00 more aint no big thang   Best rotors pads and calipers in the long run will outlast 3 sets of imported junk. do the math.   At the shop I wont install imported crap on trailers or tow vehicles  dont like it go to midas.......

You know me B.  I usually run only OEM brakes. I usually don't keep a truck long enough to wear the factory brakes out. Lol

Offline bullet20dc

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Re: Tow Vehicle Payload
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2016, 06:35:51 AM »
Hey Tranz  a while back u ax'd me about the air ride in my rig.  I had a wierd read out come up on the evic
air suspension compressor is cooling down please wait  and then the air suspension system needs immediate service   had the control module reflashed  problem seems to be gone   but anyway pertaining to this thread  You know the 1/2 ton I had before this new one with air suspension.   The std spring suspension is a huge diff in payload capacity over the air ride.  My slide in camper was fine on the spring Mossy Oak I had but the Laramie air ride couldnt handle it  The camper was 1400 lbs  and would really rock the Laramie side to side  and with the boat at the back (tongue weiight around 150) the air ride was really straining to get her back up there.  Going back to springs next truck
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Offline transamz9

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Re: Tow Vehicle Payload
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2016, 06:35:33 PM »
Funny you post that Charlie.  That is kind of what I started this thread about. You seem to be one of those that just look at a truck and say yeah it will handle it. Personally I  wouldn't put your camper in anything less than a 2500 with maybe the exception of a Ford F150 with the heavy duty payload option which is darn near impossible to find on a lot without ordering one. The Nissan Titan XD would handle it great but they cost as much as a HD truck unless you get the rice burner under the hood.

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Re: Tow Vehicle Payload
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2016, 09:46:03 PM »
But then with the Nissan with the Cummins you have one Heck of a engine with a truck that hasnt had that good of a reputation. 20+ years ago sure the nissans werent that bad for a little work truck. Ill stick with my 2500 Ram with the Cummins in it. My old truck with the Hemi was a great truck and pulled anything I ever hooked to it. I normally dont trade or swap vehicles very much at all. So I have full intensions on keeping my 2500 until it falls apart.
Charlie is right though. I cant believe folks when they pull up with a full size bass rig with something like a S-10 or a small truck. They say oh yeah it pulls it great. Im sure it does but the weight of a full size truck even if it had a 6 cylinder in it helps with stopping and overall drivability and safety pulling anything.
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Offline bullet20dc

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Re: Tow Vehicle Payload
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2017, 07:01:59 AM »
What ya mean I seem to be one of those guys.    I had that camper when I had the 3/4 dodge and it handled it great till the frame and suspension started rotting,  only year dodge didnt under coat at the factory  and forced me to get the new mossy oak version Ram.  btw std springs    Then I went in for an inspection a year later and saw the one I have now   I did some research on it and was assured the air ride would handle the slide in. Nope too soft.   I like the truck with every option available more then i did the camper so sold it for more then I paid for it 8 years ago
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 07:03:44 AM by bullet20dc »
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Offline Nightmare

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Re: Tow Vehicle Payload
« Reply #25 on: January 01, 2017, 03:36:22 PM »
was assured the air ride would handle the slide in. Nope too soft. 

If that assurance came from a salesman, I 'spose you'll remember him the next time you're shoppin' trucks...

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Re: Tow Vehicle Payload
« Reply #26 on: January 01, 2017, 05:02:11 PM »
The boat pushing my 4runner was also another reason I wanted a heavier vehicle.   It stops just fine right now with the trailer brakes but if they ever fail for some reason I will be in trouble for sure.

I did change my brakes also to a cross drilled and slotted rotor and pads.  This is the ones I used.  http://www.powerstop.com/product/power-stop-z36-kit/#y=2007&mk=TOYOTA&mo=4RUNNER&ss=Models%20with%20319mm%20(12.56)%20Front%20Rotors
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 05:03:52 PM by JackJ »
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Re: Tow Vehicle Payload
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2017, 01:37:08 PM »
was assured the air ride would handle the slide in. Nope too soft. 

If that assurance came from a salesman, I 'spose you'll remember him the next time you're shoppin' trucks...

Dodge's are soft, they are quite different than them big bags used on semis or the after-market kits. Dodge designed their system for ride and ride height adjustment capability & leveling first, not handling characteristics. What I've seen is they handle best when down low, less air bounce and shocks work better too. If you put enough shock on your truck to manage the role you'd not like the ride at all.
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Offline transamz9

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Re: Tow Vehicle Payload
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2017, 07:38:11 AM »
was assured the air ride would handle the slide in. Nope too soft. 

If that assurance came from a salesman, I 'spose you'll remember him the next time you're shoppin' trucks...

Dodge's are soft, they are quite different than them big bags used on semis or the after-market kits. Dodge designed their system for ride and ride height adjustment capability & leveling first, not handling characteristics. What I've seen is they handle best when down low, less air bounce and shocks work better too. If you put enough shock on your truck to manage the role you'd not like the ride at all.

IMO the air springs they use are too small. It's not that the bags are not heavy enough to carry the weight they just don't have enough volume to be a good handling ride when heavily loaded.

Offline transamz9

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Re: Tow Vehicle Payload
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2017, 08:22:54 AM »
Hey Tranz  a while back u ax'd me about the air ride in my rig.  I had a wierd read out come up on the evic
air suspension compressor is cooling down please wait  and then the air suspension system needs immediate service   had the control module reflashed  problem seems to be gone   but anyway pertaining to this thread  You know the 1/2 ton I had before this new one with air suspension.   The std spring suspension is a huge diff in payload capacity over the air ride.  My slide in camper was fine on the spring Mossy Oak I had but the Laramie air ride couldnt handle it  The camper was 1400 lbs  and would really rock the Laramie side to side  and with the boat at the back (tongue weiight around 150) the air ride was really straining to get her back up there.  Going back to springs next truck

Hey B I have a little time so I wanted to hit on what you were experiencing with your truck with air ride a little more.

It's not that you air ride wouldn't handle your set up its, just the way they have it set up on the 1500 trucks. Like Frug said, Ram has their 1500's set up for ride , comfort and fuel mileage. Your system works pretty much constantly so it's be-known to to me why they didn't put a compressor on them that is rated at 100% duty cycle. I have not done much research on the system on your truck but I do know that it lowers the truck above 50-55 for fuel mileage and then raises it back up under those speeds. Then it lowers when you get out to park and raises for off road use and so on. They had to pick a bag size that was a happy medium to be able to accomplish all that. If they had used bigger bags then the compressor would have had to been big to be able to supply the CFM necessary to adjust quickly.

Another problem you have is that with an air suspension like yours they can set it up to handle the maximum axle capacity right down to the pound because they know by the size of the bag how much air pressure it requires to hold that weight. I'm sure like anything else a OEM does they put a compressor in that is only capable of compressing just enough air to run the system plus maybe 10%. When you start figuring your weights that you were applying on the rear axle you were more than likely exceeding that quite a bit. The bad thing about truck campers is that they often have a center of gravity that is directly over the rear axle and sometimes behind . so that 1400# camper depending on where that center of gravity is can be applying more than that 1400# to the rear axle. Remember, every time your truck comes to a stop and shows 0 on the speedo the system analyzes your ride height and adjusts accordingly.  If you come to a stop on a hill then the center of gravity of that truck camper has changed and could be applying more or less pressure to the rear or front axle depending on which way you are facing on that hill. Now add in the tongue weight of the Bullet. Did you have it on an extended receiver hitch to clear the TC? Remember my math in the earlier post. The farther away from the rear axle you get your ball the more it takes off the front axle and adds to the rear axle.

If I'm not mistaken your trucks RAWR is 3900#. If I were to take a guess your truck empty just sitting there has about 23-2500# sitting on the rear axle. That leaves you with 14-1600# left on the capacity of your axle. You were going over that with just the truck camper before you even got in the truck much less anything else you carry with you. I would also guess that beings you have a loaded up Laramie that your little yellow payload sticker says that you truck probably only come with around 900# of available payload. :thumbup: 

 

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