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Outboard Motor Forums (by brand) => Yamaha Outboards => Topic started by: Curt on September 18, 2016, 05:17:10 PM

Title: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on September 18, 2016, 05:17:10 PM
My club had its final tourney of 2016 yesterday. The tourney was held on a river/reservoir that I'm not very familiar with.

I've heard stories of people losing skegs and damaging their lower units there, hitting rocks while running. So I went into this one with some hesitation.

I made the first run in the morning without incident. Whew

I have to admit I was pretty nervous as I motored a couple miles upstream, and relieved when I got there and shut the motor down.

It got even better when I landed a really nice Smallie in the first 10 minutes. But it went downhill from there

I landed one more small keeper Smallie and then a ton of shorts the rest of the day.

And later on I smacked a rock with my outboard at about 25-30 MPH. Ouch

This was the result.

(https://www.bassboatboards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20160918%2Fc9db6877f0d512dfc1e2b59d36f6224c.jpg&hash=8d38b20e7e0a7d02011b9a663d3741df37988bb0)

I was figuring I'd have to have someone drop the lower unit, disassemble it and then weld a replacement skeg on. But I was reminded today that they sell skeg protectors/repair kits that can be bolted on.

Has anyone ever installed one of these? They look pretty easy to do from what I've seen.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on September 18, 2016, 08:30:17 PM
Found this. It looks like I'll be ordering it tomorrow.

http://amzn.to/2cIwwEY
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on September 18, 2016, 08:43:44 PM
Actually just ordered it now. Can't wait to get it and install it. Seeing that ragged skeg makes me crazy  (giggle)
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Jig Man on September 18, 2016, 10:49:51 PM
A good welder could fix that if about 15 minutes and never take it off the motor.   Weld, grind, paint done.  When I sold boats we had a guy come every Wednesday and do repairs like that.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Eric Low on September 19, 2016, 09:42:14 AM
Ouch! Insurance? Better to make it as new if you can

I have been pretty much a zombie for 3 days....but final of 2017? I must be on the road to recovery lol.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on September 19, 2016, 11:02:41 AM

I have been pretty much a zombie for 3 days....but final of 2017? I must be on the road to recovery lol.

Oops! Massive typo  :surprised:
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on September 19, 2016, 11:05:18 AM
A good welder could fix that if about 15 minutes and never take it off the motor.   Weld, grind, paint done.  When I sold boats we had a guy come every Wednesday and do repairs like that.

@Jig Man  Wow. Seriously? I always thought the heat from welding would damage the internal stuff and seals, etc.

Quote
Ouch! Insurance? Better to make it as new if you can

@Eric Low My initial thought was to call the insurance company and see if they might cover it. Believe me, I would prefer to have it like new, if possible. I'm just not sure it would be worth contacting them, with deductibles, etc. Might be worth a shot, though.  (hmm)
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Jig Man on September 19, 2016, 11:08:04 AM
I doubt that job would cost over $100-150.  It should only be about an hour job.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on September 19, 2016, 11:11:50 AM
I doubt that job would cost over $100-150.  It should only be about an hour job.

OK. Thanks for the info. I'll check into it.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on September 23, 2016, 11:30:59 AM
Well, I opted to go with a skeg repair kit for now. I made a couple calls locally. One place told me they don't do the repairs and don't have anyone that would come to their shop to do it, so they drop the lower unit and send it to a welding shop about 30 miles from here. Another weld shop never returned my call.

So my skeg repair kit arrived here yesterday from Amazon. I will be installing it this weekend if I have the time. It should be a 15 minute install.

I'll get before and after pics. I might even do a video, but not sure yet about that part of it.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Jig Man on September 26, 2016, 07:27:46 AM
Good luck on the install.  Be sure to include pics.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on September 26, 2016, 06:22:15 PM
Good luck on the install.  Be sure to include pics.

Thanks. Will do.

I did a preliminary test last night to see how much work it will take, and it looks like I'll need to cut a bit of the ragged bottom part of my skeg off. It got bent slightly when I hit the rock. So if I simply slide the repair kit over that, it won't be straight, which I know won't be good for handling and performance.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: frugalangler on September 26, 2016, 08:30:10 PM
drop the lower unit and send it to a welding shop about 30 miles from here.

30 miles? If it were me, I'd drive that far to get it done right, them add-on are a patch/hack.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on September 27, 2016, 04:20:37 PM
drop the lower unit and send it to a welding shop about 30 miles from here.

30 miles? If it were me, I'd drive that far to get it done right, them add-on are a patch/hack.

The 30 miles isn't a problem. I called them to get a price estimate for the repair if I brought the boat there myself instead of having the local shop drop the lower unit. The problem is that they never returned my call when I called them myself.

I will most likely use the skeg repair for the time being and get it welded at a later date so it's as close to original as possible.

Regardless, I will still need to cut a piece of the old skeg off, since it's bent from the impact with the rock.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: frugalangler on September 27, 2016, 05:31:50 PM
Regardless, I will still need to cut a piece of the old skeg off, since it's bent from the impact with the rock.

The skeg can be straightened
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on September 27, 2016, 05:57:41 PM


The skeg can be straightened

OK. Thanks for that info. What's the best way to do that?
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: bullet20dc on September 30, 2016, 05:17:36 AM
If someone says they can weld a repair skeg on without removing the lover unit and disassembling it find a new place to take it.  The seals will be damaged . 
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: transamz9 on September 30, 2016, 05:00:11 PM
If someone says they can weld a repair skeg on without removing the lover unit and disassembling it find a new place to take it.  The seals will be damaged .

Depends on the process B.  You can control  the heat with a Tig.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: frugalangler on September 30, 2016, 05:45:03 PM
I also have a buddy that is awesome w/ a Henrob gas, it's amazing what he can do w/ that - many welders now prefer to a Tig
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on September 30, 2016, 07:15:44 PM
If someone says they can weld a repair skeg on without removing the lover unit and disassembling it find a new place to take it.  The seals will be damaged . 

That's always been my understanding too. But maybe new technologies and equipment can do otherwise?
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on September 30, 2016, 07:16:29 PM
BTW.. any good suggestions for straightening what's left of the skeg? I'd rather straighten it out than cut it off.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: bullet20dc on October 01, 2016, 08:56:50 AM
believe it or not I Place a 4x4 on one side and wrap the other with a good size dead blow hammer  NOT A SLEDGE HAMMER  just dont get stupid about it and give it all ya got    Just a good shot and some patience.  Dont try to pry it with monkey wrenches as I ve seen some guys try   It might snap.   If you do have someone weld it without removing the bearing carrier and driveshaft seals  keep an eye on the oil in the lower unit.  Im betting within a few weeks it will be milky from water intrusion.
Just crack the drain srew  If theres water in there it will come out first being heavier then oil.  If Its milky brown color  remember I told u so.   
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on October 02, 2016, 11:34:14 AM
believe it or not I Place a 4x4 on one side and wrap the other with a good size dead blow hammer  NOT A SLEDGE HAMMER  just dont get stupid about it and give it all ya got    Just a good shot and some patience.  Dont try to pry it with monkey wrenches as I ve seen some guys try   It might snap.   If you do have someone weld it without removing the bearing carrier and driveshaft seals  keep an eye on the oil in the lower unit.  Im betting within a few weeks it will be milky from water intrusion.
Just crack the drain srew  If theres water in there it will come out first being heavier then oil.  If Its milky brown color  remember I told u so.   

@bullet20dc Thanks again for the feedback and advice.

I'm the type of person who wants things done right. Shortcuts don't fly with me. So if there is a risk in welding the skeg with the lower unit all together, I will have it torn down first. Mickey Mouse is not allowed to work on anything that I own. Period.  (nope)
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: bullet20dc on October 02, 2016, 07:50:24 PM
smart move   It may cost a little more   but a blown gear case a few months down the road is a whole lot more.   Ive seen so many times   guys try and save a few dollars in shortcuts and come to my shop a few weeks later to fix what they had done incorrectly .  Im not complaining tho I like when guys bring in their screwups  I get to eat steak that night  (yes) (yes) (yes)
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on October 02, 2016, 08:31:49 PM
Im not complaining tho I like when guys bring in their screwups  I get to eat steak that night  (yes) (yes) (yes)

 (giggle)
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: transamz9 on October 03, 2016, 07:38:49 AM
believe it or not I Place a 4x4 on one side and wrap the other with a good size dead blow hammer  NOT A SLEDGE HAMMER  just dont get stupid about it and give it all ya got    Just a good shot and some patience.  Dont try to pry it with monkey wrenches as I ve seen some guys try   It might snap.   If you do have someone weld it without removing the bearing carrier and driveshaft seals  keep an eye on the oil in the lower unit.  Im betting within a few weeks it will be milky from water intrusion.
Just crack the drain srew  If theres water in there it will come out first being heavier then oil.  If Its milky brown color  remember I told u so.   

@bullet20dc Thanks again for the feedback and advice.

I'm the type of person who wants things done right. Shortcuts don't fly with me. So if there is a risk in welding the skeg with the lower unit all together, I will have it torn down first. Mickey Mouse is not allowed to work on anything that I own. Period.  (nope)

Yeah, I'm like you. I don't like to take short cuts either so that's why I would have at least a minimum of a brand new case with my old guts hanging on the bottom of my motor if I broke my skeg. When I busted my trailer fender I had estimates of around $800 but went the $1200 option of a brand new one from the factory.

Can the skeg be repaired? IMHO with the right welding process and the right person doing it, yes it can and can be done without tearing down the internals just finding that competent person. It will just be a slow and costly process. I have had a few LU's torn down to do some repairs and they are like diffs in vehicles. To do them right they need to be set up correctly to be dependable and IMO it's not worth the risk of being towed in for me.

Honestly, unless your skeg is broken of short I don't know that I wouldn't try to run it as is and see if it causes you handling problems. Best I remember, you don't have a high speed boat that comes all the way out of the water on a little pad. My FIL has a 19' Ranger with a 150 GT and his skeg has about a 2" piece missing and it's bent and the boat handles great with no ill effects.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on October 03, 2016, 10:52:28 AM

Honestly, unless your skeg is broken of short I don't know that I wouldn't try to run it as is and see if it causes you handling problems. Best I remember, you don't have a high speed boat that comes all the way out of the water on a little pad. My FIL has a 19' Ranger with a 150 GT and his skeg has about a 2" piece missing and it's bent and the boat handles great with no ill effects.

I made a short run after breaking it and didn't seem to feel anything negative from it.

My boat is a G3 HP 180, with a 150 HP Yamaha. It does around 53-54 MPH, and the way it's setup right now it doesn't ride on just a little piece of the pad, so there will likely be no ill effects from the broken skeg. I just hate seeing it like that  (fp)

So my short term plan is to work the skeg repair kit onto the broken skeg. And then, at some point in the future, drop the lower unit, have it disassembled, and then have the skeg repaired by a reputable welder.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: bullet20dc on October 03, 2016, 03:35:02 PM
The skeg does 2 things  first and formost it acts as guard for the prop. If its broken below the prop tip and theres enough left to guard the prop get a sawzall and clean her up and go fishing.  The second is to keep the boat straight at speed and reduce steering torque.  Ive seen customers boats with a nub left and they ran fine but not a great idea at speeds over 40 and deff not in rocky lakes   
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on October 03, 2016, 04:43:53 PM
Thanks @bullet20dc I will be cleaning it up and going fishing soon  :nod:
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on November 08, 2016, 11:23:29 AM
Update: I ran my boat at WOT last week, hitting speeds over 50 MPH and the boat handled just fine. I felt absolutely no negative effects from having 1/4 of my skeg gone.

On another note, I started the install of the skeg repair kit but came to a screeching halt when I found the battery dead in my cordless drill  (fp)

I tried to charge it, but the battery is toast, so I have ordered a replacement, which I hope will be here later this week. In the meantime, the skeg repair unit has been slid up over the damaged skeg. So all I have left to do is drill two small holes and then run the two small bolts through it and tighten them down.

I'll post some pics when it's finished.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on November 13, 2016, 05:16:10 PM
Finally got to finish the skeg repair today.

Spent some time out in the yard with my wife, raking up leaves. When we were finished I figured I'd get the skeg repair kit installation finished up. Very easy and went without a hitch.

(https://www.bassboatboards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161113%2F0f187108791a7ec43a180b9245714f18.jpg&hash=851375486f3c43af51b15333dda8c42a2f67686b)

Here are some before and after pics

(https://www.bassboatboards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161113%2F3dc152702207617b2243e696e47daf9f.jpg&hash=89948ab4ca008156b0d3df04327bf8bbb48d8826)

I'm glad it's done and I'm happy with the way it turned out
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Jig Man on November 14, 2016, 08:55:26 AM
That looks good. :thumbup:
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: frugalangler on November 14, 2016, 10:43:00 AM
I'm definitely not a fan of these, but they serve a purpose - for lower speed applications like yours it should be just fine. I can't tell from pics, but suspect they are using SS bolt/nut to affix? I just wish there were a way to reduce the amount of protrusion by the bolt and nut - if it had a flat head countersunk bolt and a swedged nut that the extra threads could be cut off, that would make it much better, but yours look pretty good.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on November 14, 2016, 11:16:37 AM
That looks good. :thumbup:

@Jig Man Thanks. My preference would be to have a new skeg welded on, but this will have to do for now. And it sure looks better than that ragged broken skeg  :nod:
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: transamz9 on November 14, 2016, 11:21:34 AM
I'm definitely not a fan of these, but they serve a purpose - for lower speed applications like yours it should be just fine. I can't tell from pics, but suspect they are using SS bolt/nut to affix? I just wish there were a way to reduce the amount of protrusion by the bolt and nut - if it had a flat head countersunk bolt and a swedged nut that the extra threads could be cut off, that would make it much better, but yours look pretty good.

Yeah , I believe I would use sex bolts if I had to do it to mine.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on November 14, 2016, 11:23:29 AM
I'm definitely not a fan of these, but they serve a purpose

@frugalangler I hear you with regard to not being a fan. Nothing is better or as good as factory. But more and more people are using these due to the reduced cost vs. having to drop the lower unit and have a new skeg welded on.

Regarding the bolts, they're not a standard bolt and nut. There is actually a threaded sleeve that inserts into the holes that I drilled through the skeg. And the screw threads into that sleeve. So it creates a way to hold this in place without a lot of stuff protruding from the installation. I'll grab a pic of them later on to show you what I mean.

Oh, and they also included a small tube of Loctite to use on the screws, to keep them from loosening up.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: frugalangler on November 14, 2016, 11:29:07 AM
The use of the sleeves definitely addresses my concerns :thumbup:, so they've come a long way since I first saw one - probably more than 10 years ago.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on November 14, 2016, 11:32:22 AM
Ya, they actually included two different sets of sleeves and screws. One set was short. The other was a bit longer. I used the short ones for my application.
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: transamz9 on November 14, 2016, 12:05:16 PM
Yes, that is a sex bolt.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=sex%20bolts (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=sex%20bolts)
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on November 14, 2016, 01:43:57 PM
Here are a couple pics.

(https://www.bassboatboards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161114%2Fa2881de2f44c00f71564531342370425.jpg&hash=40bf7dc71d1791b28552123752c88efbf516b779)

(https://www.bassboatboards.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fuploads.tapatalk-cdn.com%2F20161114%2F62b2d41d4e85a5357bdf05c05d542a4b.jpg&hash=6e6d62ed91a96f4fba25d2ba6575b4a352d5219b)
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on November 14, 2016, 01:46:25 PM
Yes, that is a sex bolt.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=sex%20bolts (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=sex%20bolts)

I didn't know there was such a thing as sex bolts. I thought you had made a typo when you wrote that in your previous reply  (giggle)
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: transamz9 on November 14, 2016, 02:03:20 PM
I figured you did that's why I put a link. LOL
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: frugalangler on November 14, 2016, 04:16:27 PM
Yes, that is a sex bolt.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=sex%20bolts (https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=sex%20bolts)

Quite sexy, so I say! LOL (stirthepot) (rofl)
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on November 14, 2016, 05:41:11 PM
 (giggle)
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: bullet20dc on November 15, 2016, 05:37:04 AM
The sex bolt setup is absolutely necessary in any lower unit on a boat capable of speeds higher then say 30mph   less turbulence in the water stream before the prop
I know you used  thread locker on them right   Nice job BTW just keep an  eye  on it.  They arent meant to be a permanent  repair a good shot on a log or rock sometimes loosens them up or worse. Save up your sheckles and get it done right at some later date
Title: Re: Did This Yesterday...
Post by: Curt on November 15, 2016, 09:59:45 AM
Nice job BTW just keep an  eye  on it.

They arent meant to be a permanent  repair a good shot on a log or rock sometimes loosens them up or worse. Save up your sheckles and get it done right at some later date

Thanks. I'm happy with the way it came out. And I absolutely plan on saving my pennies and having it done right at some point in the future. In the meantime, at least I don't have to look at that ragged edge every time I take the boat out  :)
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